73 | After-Death Organizing with Tanisha Lyons-Porter

Today I’m chatting with Tanisha Lyons-Porter. Join us as we discuss a sensitive yet essential topic: after-death organizing.

Tanisha is the founder and lead professional organizer at Natural Born Organizers, LLC, and has been transforming lives through organization since 2013. Whether she’s working with celebrities or busy families, Tanisha prides herself on creating systems that even her most disorganized clients want to maintain.

In this episode, Tanisha shares her journey from childhood experiences with disorganization to becoming a leader in the organizing community. She opens up about the emotional and practical aspects of dealing with the belongings and properties of deceased loved ones, offering invaluable advice on how to navigate this challenging process. Tanisha also discusses the importance of finding joy amidst grief and how she has been intentional about incorporating self-care into her daily routine.

Tune into  this heartfelt and enlightening conversation that not only provides practical advice but also offers a compassionate approach to dealing with one of life’s most difficult transitions.

And join me as I extend an open invitation to you—to be part of the "100 Hours of Listening" initiative. Whether you're a friend, past client, silent listener, or a fellow professional, your voice matters. This isn't a sales pitch or a consultation; it's an opportunity for you to be heard, without cost or obligation, in a non-judgmental space.

Book a session here, come as you are.

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Transcript

Intro: Welcome to A Pleasant Solution, Embracing An Organized Life. I'm your host, certified life coach, professional organizer, and home life expert, Amelia Pleasant Kennedy and I help folks permanently eliminate clutter in their homes and lives. On this podcast will go beyond the basics of home organization to talk about why a clutter-free mindset is essential to an aligned and sustainable lifestyle. If you're someone with a to-do list, if you're managing a household and if you're caring for others, this podcast is for you. Let's dive in.

Amelia: Welcome to Episode 73, "After Death Organizing with Tanisha Lyons Porter." Tanisha is the founder and lead professional organizer at Natural Born Organizers LLC. Since starting her business in January 2013, she has guided a countless number of clients through the declutter process in a fraction of the time and frustration than when they do it themselves. Whether working with celebrity clients or a typical busy family, she prides herself on creating systems that even her most quote unquote disorganized clients want to maintain. 

Tanisha is an active member, and newly elected board member of the National Association of Productivity and Organizing Professionals, otherwise known as NAPO, past president of the Los Angeles Chapter, a member of the National Association of Black Professional Organizers, otherwise known as NABPO, and the Institute of Challenging Disorganization. She has been featured on Good Day LA, and in over 30 popular publications, such as Better Homes and Gardens, Real Simple, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times, Costco Connections Magazine, and online platforms like Parents.com and Goop.com since 2020. She has also collaborated with powerhouses such as Luvvie Ajayi Jones in her Love LuvvNation Community and Patrice C. Washington's Redefining Wealth podcast. 

She spent the first eight weeks of the pandemic in spring 2020 building a community with women across the country who not only wanted to create order in their lives, but needed to due to the immediate shift with everyone and everything being at home. The pandemic seeded the creation of her signature program, Your Organized Life with Tanisha. Tanisha is a proud alumna of Howard University, wife of 21 years, mother of two, new grandmother, and resides in her hometown of Los Angeles, California.

Amelia: So welcome to the podcast, Tanisha.

Tanisha: Thank you.

Amelia: So you and I met via the National Association of Productivity and Organizing Professionals of both, which we are both volunteers, which I just want to point out because that's kind of a big deal.

Tanisha: Mm -hmm. It's kind of a big deal.

Amelia: And you just spent a lovely amount of time with me at our most recent summit in California. And having that long, meaningful conversation with you felt so purposeful, which is one of the reasons that I'm drawn to you.

Tanisha: Thank you.

Amelia: And I just, I love how honest you are with folks. And I think that that's really what makes you shine. So I'd love for you to tell everybody a little bit about yourself.

Tanisha: Thank you. Well, my name is Tanisha Lyons Porter and I'm born and raised and currently reside in Los Angeles, California. I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a new grandmother. And I know, and I started my organizing business in January of 2013. And I absolutely love it. And I look forward to it growing and scaling and touching more people in an even more meaningful way. I mean, helping people get their homes in order so they can deal with life is the part I love and have always loved about the service that we provide. But I feel like how I do that is changing, and the who that I am serving is, and I'm getting pulled in another direction. I'm humbly excited for all of the various changes that are going to be happening in the business, and I feel now the same way that I did when I decided that this was what I was gonna do, like it feels right. So yeah, yeah, so I love it.

Amelia: I love that. Yeah, I love that. And perhaps if you're willing, we can dive into that here in a little bit, maybe give us a sneak peek of how things are evolving for you. But first, yeah, but first I want to ask you, what did “organization” - this idea that we have - right, “What did it look like for you during your childhood?

Tanisha: Neither one of my parents, God rest their souls, were organized. Neither one of them were organized. And so what it looked like for me, it wasn't necessarily stressful, right? As far as for me as a child, I didn't feel embarrassed when people came over. It wasn't a chronic disorganization situation or a hoarding situation.

But my dad liked to collect things. We used to tease him and call him MacGyver. He could do all things. He could fix all things. He could build all things. And therefore, he had to have all the things to be able to do that. He was an engineer, so he always loved tech. And there were also never-ending projects that were never quite completed.

And so, you know, when you're working with people, you see those incomplete projects. So that was my dad. My mom, she, cleaning was not her best suit. And I understood why, because my grandmother, her mom, was a very type A personality to the extreme. And so, you know, sometimes when you grow up, and also, you know, Afro-Latina. 

And so when you grow up in that household, you can either kind of fall in line the same way, or you're like, this is too strict. When I get older and I'm living in my own house, the rules will not apply. And so I understand that my mom went the opposite and she was just kind of like, you know, I'm going to run my household, not like my mom. You know, we had a cleaning lady and things like that, but, you know, there were just, there were areas that were disorganized. Ironically, that my parents and my family home were the first spaces that I actually organized, not knowing that that's what I was doing. So it was my training ground without even knowing that I was training for my future profession. Yeah.

Amelia: Thank you so much for sharing that because I have talked on previous episodes and I sprinkle in here and there. I think people underestimate the kind of the household that they grew up in, generations of behaviors, how that kind of impacts the way that we navigate, organize, use our spaces. And I love that you, I feel like your dad would almost have been a maker today - what we describe as a maker or tinker. I love that. And, right? And just all the projects and that you somehow felt a desire to create a little, would you call it order amongst all that.

Tanisha: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so when they would, when I was in high school, they would travel with other married couples and they would go to Jamaica, various parts of Mexico and they wouldn't normally go for long weekends, you know, like three or four days. Well, not Jamaica, but Mexico. And you know, I was in high school and I was six years older than my sister. And so we would be home, you know, by ourselves, but we had family friends that would come over and check on us. 

But, you know, I was a goody two shoes, you know, very responsible teenager. So, you know, it was no, no, I was still scared of my parents, right? But while they were gone, that's when I would do these projects, right? I would go in the linen closet and I would get rid of all of the old towels and the old sheets that we had. There were twin sheets in there, and we have no twin beds.

And I think I did that to your point because it was frustrating for me trying to find things, right? The sheets I needed for my bed or towels that were really good or when it was time for me to put up towels, there was no room. And so I was trying to create order and reduce frustration. And it was like, okay, well, I can't go anywhere while mommy and daddy are away. So let me do this. Let me do this. And then I started to see the benefits of it, and I didn't get any negative responses from my parents. So I just kept doing it.

Amelia: Yeah, I think that's important to point out, that last tidbit of like not receiving any negative responses. Because I think on the other hand, you know, folks who consider themselves disorganized or not productive may have received a lot of feedback about their behaviors or lack of order growing up. And now we just forget how much impact and influence we have on one another within the home.

Tanisha: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, I told you, this was my training ground. So I feel like it was training me, number one, not to just throw away other people's things, right? Thinking about do we need things like that? So, it built my processes subconsciously. So I think that was another thing. Like they didn't feel judged. My parents didn't feel judged and they didn't feel the pressure and they weren't traumatized by what I was doing because I never threw away their things. And I probably only got rid of things that I just knew like weren't no longer needed. So it helped me to tune into the needs of my clients. And so funny, my first clients were my parents.

Amelia: Yes, yes, and we are going to go there in just a moment. Because I just want to bring just one little thing you said there, not judged, not traumatized. And what is unique to your particular method and approach? Y'all go check out Tanisha's website because it really covers what you repeatedly say, no judgment.

Tanisha: Yes, yes, yes.

Amelia: And when you're on social media, you speak to folks in a very radically honest way, but with so much compassion and love. And I just love how you've blended that together through your training and your experience. And yeah, why do you think that that's kind of where you landed as your approach?

Tanisha: Yeah. I think because I realized when I decided to delve into entrepreneurship in this manner, because this is actually like my third business, I hesitated because in my head, what organized look like wasn't necessarily what I grew up within and how I ran my house.

I knew I was more organized than others, but what I defined as organized was what I saw Martha Stewart and B. Smith and that was so rigid. I was like, I'm not organized. But then when I realized and people started telling me that my house was organized in what I saw compared to what I witnessed when I was in their homes, I was like, okay.

I see. And I realized that it came natural to me, that it doesn't come natural for most. But the reason why there's no judgment and that I'm only there to help is because I recognize that this is my gift. This is what I don't need discipline for because I don't find it difficult. And so, but there are plenty of things that I struggle with. And I don't want someone who doesn't need to build discipline for something like, i.e. exercising on a regular basis, right? Or eating for health and not, because I really like some cheeseburger and fries right now. I don't want that person to judge me because it's a struggle. I just want their help. And so I always keep that in the back of my mind. And I started with that mentality and that empathy from day one.

And that's the foundation of Natural Born Organizers. That has always been the foundation because I know in this, I'm good. And in this, I can help anyone. But there are so many other things that I need experts in my life and I don't want them ever looking at me or even thinking, why? This is easy. What's the problem?

Never do I want that thought, that look, or even the words or actions that align with that energy.

Amelia: I am totally on board with you, which is why I think I was drawn to coaching in particular. And I remind folks like when we meet, the hardest part is reaching out for help in any service-based profession, right? But we are going to create a space that is safe and safe.

Tanisha: Mm -hmm.

Amelia: Loving where you are 100 % whole in all that you are from day one all the time.

Tanisha: Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Amelia: And of course we can help and we can work and we can grow and we can change and we can bring self-compassion along with us the entire journey.

Tanisha: Yeah, yeah. It's recognizing where you are, what your natural tendencies are, how you grew up, what your foundation was, and working from there. Progress is the goal, not to get you all the way over here. If you're “here” on the organized scale, then I want to get you “here” consistently. My goal is not to get you all the way over here. Right? So, yeah. Yeah, I love what we do.

Amelia: And I think it's, yeah, and I think it's like a relevant transition point to the next part of our conversation because, yeah, grief is hard.

Tanisha: It is. It is. It is.

Amelia: And it's a process. And we're not gonna just go from here to there magically. So I just, I know that over the last couple of years, like many, you have experienced loss. It's both hard for me to wrap my mind around losing both parents.

Tanisha: Mm -hmm.

Amelia: Something I'm getting familiar with as my mom fades away from dementia. So I'd love for you to share your story and how you've been navigating after-death organizing.

Tanisha: Yes, so my dad passed away in May of 2020 from complications. He had a heart transplant. The heart was good. None of his complications came from the transplant. It came from another issue that they thought the heart transplant was going to fix and it didn't, right?

In that loss, we, my sister and I were able to say goodbye to him with all of his wits. We were blessed in the, with the experience of being able to say goodbye with no words unsaid. Right? It was an absolute favor.

And so the way we think about or the, our experience with losing our dad, totally different, right? Sad, but we know that everything that needed to be said, asked, expressed, you know, was done. And he was there. He was present. He was there. He knew exactly what was happening, exactly whatever, right? That's a blessing.

My mom, unfortunately, but looking back, we kind of feel like it had to happen in that manner. Went quick, unexpected and total shock. That experience is totally, totally different. and so what I'm wrapping my head around now is I underestimated how I would feel after both parents are no longer here. Right? So I figured I lost my dad, right? Like I was his person. My sister was my mom's person in regards to healthcare. So they both started having health challenges around the same time. And so I, you know, I was the one taking my dad to all the, you know, helping him get on her transplant list, all that stuff.

My sister was the one that was dealing with my mom and her things. So I, you know, I'm like, listen, I dealt with my dad's thing. It was very dramatic. It was very Grey's Anatomy X. You know, it was like, you know, we made it through. It's something when they're both gone, right? And then you're left with their things and not necessarily the clothes, the jewelry, the things like that.

The things like houses - right - property that now you have to, that now are yours. And you have to deal with all the things that come with these wealth generating things that on the surface is a blessing, right? Like it's a blessing.

However, it's also a constant reminder that your parents are no longer here and these things are now yours and your responsibility. And you're like, I don't want to get somebody else to do it. Yeah.

Amelia: So let me clarify. I think that you're talking about maybe their primary home and then additional properties as well.

Tanisha: Yes. Yes, so their primary home, the home that I grew up in, and then my parents purchased a six -bedroom apartment complex in ‘74, I want to say. And then they bought our family home in ‘78. So now my sister and I have two properties. Wonderful, great. However, every time there's an issue at the apartment, it is a reminder. They are no longer here.

Amelia: Yes. And whether you have the skills, right, or are learning on the job.

Tanisha: Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. To step into that role, right? Also, you know, my mom has an older sister who's still alive. She just turned 80. My dad has, you know, he was one of 12. But in my nucleus of family, you know, my husband, me, my two kids, my sister, it was a realization that I am now the matriarch.

Amelia: Right? To step into that role.

Tanisha: What? What?

Amelia: Where did that come from?

Tanisha: What? I'm like, I'm not ready for that. It's just so much attached to grief and loss. So in this season, you know, your responsibilities don't go away. So in this season, I'm very intentional about finding joy while breathing. I'm very intentional about that because I don't want to be sad all the time. And if I am going to be sad and I do have to take all of these things into account, I want sprinklings of joy, right? And sometimes you have to force that in there, you know?

Amelia: Yes, yes and - I appreciate that because remind me what's the time frame for you now that both parents are gone because what I imagine is that you almost had to make a conscious choice to invite joy back in or to force it or to sprinkle it right to reach a point where you're like, okay, it's time to pivot a bit.

Tanisha: Mm -hmm. Yeah, my mom passed away in September. So I think that's like what six, seven-ish months, something like that. So it's still very fresh, right? My sister, when my mom passed, she immediately was like, you were the only one that did not have any type of medication when daddy passed. And I can, she was like, you're not doing that again.

I have a therapist, you know, she said, she said things were different. She said, you just went through the hardest year in your business. You're now fully menopausal. Your life is in total transition, right? Your daughter, your oldest, is pregnant and having a child. Your youngest is a young adult about to turn 20.

and so he's transitioning into young adulthood. Therefore you're the way your marriage is in transition because now the focus is not on the kids. So now you all are figuring out what this next season in your marriage looks like. And then you, and then you lost your mom. She said, you need to call your therapist right now and explain to her and talk to her. What do you need as far as to get on antidepressants to help you, to lift you up.

Amelia: Yes. And so before we head down the path of all of their life transitions you just mentioned, I'd love you to offer listeners like one or two kinds of practical strategies or offerings, perhaps something your therapist shared with you, just on what and how. When folks are near this experience themselves, just what are one or two tidbits that you might have?

Tanisha: Hehehehehe. Yeah, you know, if you are fortunate to still have one or both parents that are still around and not going through dementia or Alzheimer's and you're able to have certain conversations, have them, try and have them. It doesn't have to be deep. It doesn't have to be dark.

But just enough that you get a better understanding of what is important to them as far as their physical things, what their wishes are, because you're going to be so hurt and so devastated. And this is regardless if you had a healthy relationship with your parents or if it was toxic or somewhere in between that.

Everything is going to feel important. And if you have a little bit of an inkling of what they would not even care about, it helps to make the decisions that unfortunately does not care about your grief. There are certain decisions that have to be made regardless of how dark your days are. So try and have conversations pre -death, even with your family members that will be involved in making decisions, whether it's siblings or aunts and uncles or the person that is left behind, a partner or ex -partner, try and have those conversations. It makes things so much easier on the other end.

Amelia: Yes, and I will second that and I've mentioned it a bit earlier on the podcast, but I think one of the best decisions that my brother and I ever made was having that conversation with my mother in particular, while she was still quite lucid and able to share and to tell us what she valued and what she loved and what she could care less about in terms of her living space and her belongings and of course, she was very heartbroken to know that life was changing for her. But I second that, purposeful, hard conversation just for clarity.

Tanisha: Yeah. Yeah. Just for clarity, because everything is going to be unclear. Everything is going to be unclear. And so that little bit of clarity that you don't have to think and make this, you talk about decision fatigue.

Right? So little things that you don't have to make those decisions, it just makes the dark days manageable. Right? So that's one thing. The other thing I would say is that grief is your own. It's going to look different. It's going to feel different for everyone. And it's not predictable.

The best way to get through it is to get through it. It can't be avoided. And so the one thing that has helped me is having someone to talk to. And that could be a therapist or someone who is not afraid of death and grief.

Right? So if you have a close friend, if you have a family member who is not afraid to be around someone who is grieving or has lost someone, because that can be a very awkward situation, have that person to talk to. And when the tears come, it's so much easier to let them flow and they will, it will pass. I think we, we, we don't want the tears to flow because we feel like we're not going to be able to recover from it and that it's just going to be an all day experience. And there may be times when it is, but most of the time, if we let the tears flow when they come, it'll be gone.

Tanisha: Five minutes, tops, it'll be gone.

Amelia: Yeah, and it's definitely a very similar approach that I encourage with clients when separating from belongings as well when we're tied through memory and story, right? Sometimes we just have to feel the feelings in order to then get to the place where we can rationally make decisions about what's next.

Tanisha: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.

Amelia: So when we talk about life transitions in general, I think this is a good segue because I was thinking about why do you think that it is so common? Perhaps it's culture, perhaps it's feeling the need to always put on a brave face. Why do you think it's so common to downplay all the life transitions that we may be going through, because you just named a bunch earlier for yourself.

Tanisha: A bunch, right? I think some of it has to do with the way we were brought up. Because if we were brought up in a household that kept things in the household. No matter who, it could be aunts, uncles, cousins. They don't need to know, right? It's like, these are things we talk about here, right? I think that comes into it. And also I think sometimes we lose sight that we really don't know what is going on in other people's lives. And this was before social media, right? Social media now has, what do you call it? Amplified that, right? But even before social media.

Amelia: Amplified it.

Tanisha: You're going to, when you're hanging out with your friends, unless things are just really bad, you're going to see the best of them. You're going to see the best of their interactions with their partners, whether it's a boyfriend or whatever, you're going to see the best of them. When you go over to someone's house, it is, it's, it's fixed up. They have done the mass clean. They have stashed away things. So you're seeing their home in the best possible light. So I think people lose sight that other people are not struggling in something and that they are not in transition. It's just like menopause. It's only been recently that women are actually openly talking about the things that are associated with menopause other than hot flashes. Right? Like literally it has only been recently. 

And so, you know, I, I started to learn that very early on in regards to what I see is not always reality. Very, very early on before I was married. My first child, Ashley, I had her with my high school and college sweetheart, right? We never married. So I was a single mother before I married my husband and had a child with him. And I remember being in my late 20s, I had her when I was 23. And I remember being in my late 20s before meeting my husband feeling like I'm never gonna get married. Nobody's ever gonna marry me, I have a child, right? And I used to look at all of my friends that had gotten married earlier. And I just felt so bad about myself. And very shortly after I got married, I just started seeing a lot of those people in their marriages dropping like flies.

And I remember being shocked the first few times. And I had to really check myself and go, girl, you went through this whole entire period of feeling a certain way about not being married and all of these things. And the people, they weren't even happy.

Amelia: Yes, what you were seeing on the outside was not what was happening on the inside. Take off the mask, take off the cape.

Tanisha: No. And I think that is the basis of why we don't talk about our transitions and our struggles because number one, I think we don't feel safe. There's not enough safe spaces. But I think the reason why there's not enough safe spaces is because people aren't ready to get naked, you know what I mean, about to take off the mask. Yeah, people aren't ready for that. And so we really don't know, we don't understand what I'm going through, this person is going through or went through it and they survived it and they figured it out and they had help. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why I built the membership that I have is because if someone has been struggling with clutter all their life or just recently because of a life event, they feel like theirs is the worst. 

You know this, when you start working with someone, one of the early questions they ask you is this the worst that you've seen? Right? People like to be able to compare and know that they're not the worst. Right? And that's part of the community is knowing that struggling in this area just like you're struggling. My God, I am not alone.

Amelia: Yes, so tell us a little bit about your community and just some of the recommendations that you give folks because many folks are starting from square one because life transitions, right? We feel compelled to bring some sort of order to our lives when things are bumpy. So how do you...

Tanisha: Out of control.

Amelia: Yeah, how do you help people do that?

Tanisha: I think helping them self -identify where they are on either, you know, the clutter scale or what their aptitude, right, to being organized, what natural things they do or don't do, helping them self -identify with that, and then helping them decide what success looks like for them right now, right? Right now, not what the goal is over here, like right now. What does success look for you right now? And in helping them identify that. And sometimes that does have to be a conversation because if you are in a life transition that has you constantly in the clouds, we can't build a system or your success does not look like when you are 100 % walking in the sunshine. That's a different person. That's a different version of you. So if success looks like what that person can do on a regular basis, you're not gonna reach success.

Amelia: Yes. We got to start with that minimum standard.

Tanisha: The minimum standard. And so part of the community is having those conversations and getting to know people so that I can recognize what your minimum standard is. If you are the main caregiver for your partner, right, there are certain boundaries, time constrictions, energy constrictions that you have to be honest about.

And so I feel like it's my job to help you identify what you can be consistent in and what your minimum standard is. And then when things change, we can up it. But I just need for you to find that minimum in the season that you're in now so that you can see a difference. And so we can create some type of order in what you can control because so much right now you cannot.

Amelia: This is brilliant because I talk a lot about using curiosity, creating awareness of knowing exactly where you are. But these micro mini wins, folks can sometimes turn a side eye at them, but they are what move you forward because those mini successes make the next…

Tanisha: It's important.

Amelia: …step possible. And I love that you said helping folks see what's already working and building from that because I tell people all the time you're more organized than you think. So let's build some elements from there and just those daily practices at that minimum level really firm up the foundation of your skill set of your inner belief system and sets the systems in place.

Tanisha: Yeah, many wins, you know, small wins are wins, right? And you gotta take them because it's building you up. It builds you up. And that's in any aspect of your life, not just with organization, with fitness, with nutrition, with faith, with whatever the case may be. You know, over the weekend, I went to this exercise class that's called the class.

And I didn't really know what to expect. Some girlfriends and my sister, you know, invited me. The thing that I loved about it is that the way the instructor organized the agenda of the movement, it felt very doable. As someone that is in menopause, that knows I have to start moving more and differently, it can be very disheartening and deflating when I start moving and I am feeling more either winded or tired or heavy faster than when I did 10 years ago. It makes you not want to do it again, right? And it's the same with other people and with other situations. But the thing I loved about the class is that she organized it in a way that there were simple movements that were done in repetition and long enough to music that seeped into your ears, that also motivated you and spoke to you, right? And affirmed you that seemed very doable, but after 20, 40, 50 times, you realize, my God, I feel this. I feel this, right?

Amelia: I'm working out.

Tanisha: And then 45 minutes, 50 minutes later, you're now on the cool down. It's like, my God, I finished an hour of very high intensity workout and I'm sweating. I am perspiring. It's a small win. And that made it to where I've moved my body three times since then. Right? And that is the goal. And that is the benefit in the magic and the beauty of small wins.

Amelia: I love it. I love it. I love it. And it really, I thank you for sharing that. It's a perfect analogy for the organization journey. There's no destination. We're just, we keep showing up every day.

Tanisha: Yep, every day, every day.

Amelia: So Tanisha, what is one way, perhaps a creative way, that you employ organization now as an adult?

Tanisha: Goodness, what is one way that I employ organization as an adult? Hmm...right now in this season.

I am organizing my days too, because in the season when my dad was in and out of the hospital with different complications, around that time is when I started therapy. And because I was giving so much, and my kids were younger, and so I was still giving, giving, my therapist told me that I needed to do at least one thing every day for 15 minutes that turned the focus on me. 

And I'm in the season that the way that I am inviting, I love that term, the way that I am inviting joy in this season of grief and transition and uncertainty is I'm organizing my days and I'm pulling things from my self -care and my wellness list that my therapist made me write down. And I'm pulling those things and putting them into my day. I literally think the night before, what can I do tomorrow? Right? If I haven't thought about that, what can I do today? And that is organizing my day, thinking about it, making space for it and doing it on a consistent basis. So yeah, that's how I'm employing that in this season of my life. Because grief and transition and uncertainty can take you out.

Amelia: Yes, and -

Tanisha: So it's life or death, it's life or death.

Amelia: And that's so purposeful and intentional. And what I want to highlight there is the pre -work that you did of creating the bank of joy to pull from. Because some folks often think, well, I have no idea what I would do if I had some free time.

Tanisha: Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. I cried, Amelia, when my therapist told me that's what she wanted me to do, I started to cry because that is what came to my mind. Now I have to think every day. I don't have the energy to do it. And she told me, write a list, try and get up to 100 so that you don't have to think about it. I got up to, I feel like 75. But she said big things, small things, planning things, whatever. But I literally - to your point - I cried When she told me to do that. I was like I can't take one more thing on this plate Yeah

Amelia: You have shared so many nuggets with us. Thank you so much for giving us your heart and your time and your experience. I'd love for you to share with folks how they can connect with you, have fun decluttering, because I know that's something you enjoy. You've got a Facebook community, blogs, videos, and of course, your membership, Your Organized Life with Tanisha.

Tanisha: I do. I do. Yes, well thank you so much for inviting me, allowing and providing the space to be transparent. I've always been a transparent person and so, you know, everybody has to go through very similar things. There's not that much that's unique in life, right? So thank you. And everyone, y 'all can follow me on Instagram at Natural Born Organizers. That's my business page. And like Amelia said,I talk about all things life and how it merges with clutter and organization. And I have Tanisha's Declutter and Organizing Party on the Facebooks. And, and, yeah, and I have my membership, my accountability group which we meet Sunday through Thursday every day as a check -in. We work on different things and you can try it out for 30 days for a small fee just to try it out. That gives a lot of time to see if you like the vibe and the energy, right? And if you feel like you would benefit from it. So come try it out. I'd love to see you in there. And...

Never give up, y 'all, on whatever it is that you are dealing with in your life. Do not give up.

Amelia: What a great place to leave it. Thank you so much.

Tanisha: You're welcome.

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